Went to Car Max yesterday... did not go how I expected it - M3 edition

"Lekker" (z34nismo)
10/01/2014 at 10:33 • Filed to: M3

Car Max has a very decent reputation of being straight up, and providing deals in terms of warranty for the cars they sell. They're known for being "honest" among the car market, but I've never personally dealt with them.

Yesterday I stopped by, because they had an amazingly gorgeous 2008 M3, here are some pictures I snapped:

Well I got there thinking it is a real option, I really would consider trading my 370 nismo for it. So I go about doing the usual, inspecting it, test drive, etc. That's when things got interesting.. The first thing I noticed is the exhaust was definitely not stock. It was loud, and sounded like pure sex. Did I mind? No. Did I care about the fact that it wasn't mentioned on the listing? Well, actually, yes. It changes the perspective of the life of the car. Did it entirely deter me from it? Heck no, it sounded like sex!

We got on the car, the salesman drove it out the lot and we switched places. We drove around for a good while, and talked to the rep about cars - turns out he is in love with the Hellcat and is hoping to get one soon. The drive was sublime, the car felt like nothing else I've ever driven. Fast forward 30 minutes and we are back at the lot. At this point I start inspecting the car and asking more in depth questions like, "If the exhaust is aftermarket, what else is?" So I went through every gap and panel, spent 5 minutes looking under the vehicle, just to find a load of aftermarket goodies. It had been lowered, changed springs, aftermarket wheels/tires, which was enough to make me wonder why it hadn't been mentioned. That's when I found it. I opened the trunk and was inspecting the seams to look for repaint excess, and sure enough. The trunk had been painted. So I mentioned that to the rep, who attempted to play dumb. Then I found an uneven panel, the rear left quarter-panel had been repainted or even replaced. The rep said he knew nothing about it, that it was most likely just a scuff. Then I went into the car's infotainment system, and found that the car had been overfilled with oil. It took 4 clicks to figure that out, so it made me think, how long has it been like that?

After all this he proceeded to try and sell me the vehicle inside. To which I very kindly replied that without knowing what was done to the car, I did not feel comfortable. So we hopped on the computer and looked through the car fax. Which he kept stating was the more important record of major events. Of course, the car was clean in the record. So I kindly asked him, if he could get a hold of the buyers and ask when the oil had been changed in order to find out how long the car had been overfilled and driven like that, and perhaps if they knew why the paint residue was there, etc. He comes back 30 minutes later and says the oil was changed around one thousand miles ago. Does not tell me the mileage, or any further details about the panels. When he handed me the paper, half of it was blacked out to cover whatever they didn't want me to see. At the bottom of the page however, there were two repair orders. One for the trunk/rear bumper and one for the rear left quarter panel. He proceeded to tell me he knew nothing further, and that it had been done in house. Which bothered me even more, they did the work but didn't think it was something a potential buyer should know. Needless to say, I lost almost all interest.

What do you guys think? I honestly now see Car Max as any other dealer, no more reputable or concerned with our end-goal than any dealer. The worst part of it all, is that the guy started our conversation with "I'm here to help you find what is in your best interest", and he was a seasoned 5 year senior salesman, who moved from management because he loves cars too much. I didn't lose hope in them, we spent another half an hour looking at other M3's in the area and talked about how what we found out would deter him from buying it too. I guess I was just hoping for a company that was 100% up front with things. Especially a car of that caliber.

TL;DR - I drove an M3 at Car Max, it was sex. But they weren't up front about it all. Still want an M3

DISCUSSION (26)

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 10:37

I'm glad that it wasn't just me going crazy. My dad's LS460, which he bought used from a dealer as a previous loaner had a completely clean Carfax but every single time I looked at the car for the first month, I saw things like how there was paint marks on the rear parking sensors, overspray inside the wheel well, slight disalignment, but my dad was really happy with it so after pointing out the first thing, I never pointed out anything again.

Firewrx234 > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
10/01/2014 at 10:40

Technically speaking, the things that you find on a Carfax are only things that were reported as fixed from a service shop. So, if a service shop (one that just so happens to sell said car) doesn't want it to show up on a Carfax, they won't report it...Sad to see but it happens.

Lekker > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
10/01/2014 at 10:41

Yeah what I learned from the rep is that they basically take in cars with up to a certain amount of damage and repair it in house. In order to not drop the cost, they don't report it. And since it technically wasn't an accident they don't have to.

Is your dad's LS460 still running fine? Glad he was happy with it

Crocket Bernet > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 10:41

They're just another car dealer the only thing I can think of from a carmax that is better than a normal dealer is the warranty and relatively upfront prices. They need to sell cars to stay in business, if you go into the dealership expecting them to be your friend you unfortunately have another thing coming.

Lekker > Crocket Bernet
10/01/2014 at 10:42

Yeah that's basically what happened. I know they are a business and need to make their money, but their marketing is always about being up front. I guess it's just the world we live in now

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 10:44

I cry at the dishonesty created by capitalism. I think he bought the LS for like $41,000 back when fully loaded ones like ours were sitting at $47,000, so I guess, lower than normal but higher than previously-in-an-accident? It's still going well, I hear wind noise that I consider excess in a damn LS. I hope you're successful in your M3 hunt! :D

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Firewrx234
10/01/2014 at 10:44

Might be why my dad left our GX unrepaired for now after a minor collision that scratched the bumper a little bit.

As Du Volant > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 10:45

Sounds like you got a bad salesman. Bad salespeople can be found everywhere.

And with my experience in the car business I can tell you people do NOT move down from management back to sales because they "love cars too much." He was demoted for being a shitty manager, I guarantee it.

Firewrx234 > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
10/01/2014 at 10:46

Exactly the same. It goes both ways lol.

Lekker > Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna
10/01/2014 at 10:46

Yeah the dishonesty is reaching new levels, so the best we can do is try to stay away or just be cautious. That sounds like it was a decent deal then, it is a fancy luggsurious car after all :)

Thanks! To be honest, I appreciate and like my 370 now. But GAWD do I want an M3. I'll definitely post pictures and write-up when I get one!

Tapas > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 10:51

Thanks for your post, Lekker.

I was under the impression that buying from Carmax was somehow better that buying from a dealer, since they are (or seem to be) a little more transparent.

I have considered buying a car from them since DeMuro's post. But if I do so, I'll certainly be a lot more cautious. At least they have a 5 day grace period to return the car...

Lekker > As Du Volant
10/01/2014 at 10:52

I disagree to a point, because had it been any other sales man they would not have tried to bring the value of the item they're selling down. But I see your point. Let me put it this way, after I found out about those issues, another salesman knew I was being a "no go" and went as far as walking up to me and the other rep while we were outside inspecting the vehicle (after knowing what had happened) and he gave him some papers and said "Well the other kid loved the car", to which my sales rep responded "What kid?... there was no one else scheduled to look at the car". So yeah there are bad salesmen, but he didn't seem to be one of them.

And well I respect your opinion but honestly it didn't seem like the case to me. He was the only one with direct access to the higher end cars, and spoke directly with higher ups. But who knows, you might be right...

Lekker > Tapas
10/01/2014 at 10:53

Aha that's where the catch is. They are better than any other dealer I've bought from. You do get 5 days to return the car, and they do give you a 30 day warranty ... but they don't want to lose money if they don't have to. Who does?

Just like you said, just be cautious :D

Tapas > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 10:56

Agreed.

Now that I think of it, I'm sure other dealers would have put a lot more road blocks with finding such details from original owner (is that what he did? or did he just quote the carfax for oil change?).

But yeah, they don't wanna lose money if they can get away with shit.

Lekker > Tapas
10/01/2014 at 11:00

He actually did not, he was very interested in finding out if anything had in fact been done to car. And it wasn't from the original owner, as there had been 4 owners. It was from the people who purchased the car, and did the maintenance prior to getting it in the showroom. Which is why I still ended up looking at other vehicles with him. He even went as far as mentioning he can call the location where a car is, and have them do a walk around, ask questions like are there any paint residues, ask directly for the service history from carmax AND car fax. He was very open about it once we found out, but he was just reluctant to believe the car had any work done or had been damaged seriously prior to getting the papers.

Tapas > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 11:04

Gotcha.

That makes me feel a little better about Carmax. Still, you can never be too careful.

And let us Oppos know when you find the right M3 :)

BKRM3 > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 11:05

It's a bummer that Car Max wasn't completely up front with all of the information on the repairs and known modifications, but that place is still a used car dealer. If you want to buy a 6 year old M3 that's never had paint work (i.e., never been driven on the street as an actual car) you're going to have to shop on enthusiast forums, and you're going to have to pay WAY more than what Car Max probably wants for that one. They want to move volume, they don't care about going over every bolt to check the torque spec. They don't care if they have the full maintenance history....or if the oil is overfilled (btw run away from that car, overfill is NO good for the S65). If you want the full maintenance history - again, enthusiast forum or private seller (sometimes) on auto trader. Dealers almost never have all the paperwork. Carfax is useless, as you know.

You really want an M3? Here, lemme help: http://www.m3post.com/forums/forumdi…

Personally, I don't get too worked up about paint/repairs/track time. These are daily drivers for a lot of owners. My 2009 E90 looks like it just rolled out of the showroom and I'm not confident there's a single panel on the car that has original paint at this point. It's done 12 track days since I bought it and has had 3 oil changes this summer, all with Blackstone analysis reports. It's better maintained than any car that goes to the dealer for service based on the dash lights. I have a stack of paperwork a foot high. Unless you want to buy a garage queen and keep it a garage queen you're going to be banging your head against the wall (or you'll be lied to and find out later) if you are looking for an 08 with all original paint. They exist, of course, but it's usually not worth the hassle. Oh, and if you want one with iDrive, the 09+ is the one to have. 2008 iDrive is awful compared to the 09. I've owned both systems.

Sam > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 11:24

Hm... The only thing I can say is that if you want a perfect M3, you aren't gonna find one at CarMax and need to expect a large premium. If being in an (seemingly) minor accident doesn't bother you, then this one looks like an okay option. I'd have it inspected by a mechanic and definitely get the warranty, however.

KillerBee > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 11:33

I honestly now see Car Max as any other dealer, no more reputable or concerned with our end-goal than any dealer.

Well, you should have known that from the get-go. Thinking that any used car salesman has your best interests at heart is simply naive. Also assuming that a used car dealer knows anything about the history of a car, or that they would tell you about it if they did know, is naive.

Lekker > BKRM3
10/01/2014 at 11:39

That link actually helped me see what to expect for a "closer to garage queen" state M3. They're not that much more than Car Max's. Thank you!

I wasn't expecting a perfect car, not nearly. It is the lack of transparency what really pushed me away from that one vehicle in particular. As you mentioned, a car that has thorough documentation is better than one than one that gets taken to the dealer for everything. I'm looking for a car that hasn't been neglected, from a dealer/seller that does not try to hide things. That is it. I don't care if it has had things replaced, that just means it has been used! At any rate, thanks for the link and information. You're definitely getting me closer to the ideal M3 and yes, pre-2009 iDrive sucks.. I'll have to remember that. Thanks again for the info!

Lekker > Sam
10/01/2014 at 11:41

What I'm looking for isn't a garage queen, or a perfect car. Just an honest sale, with full disclosure of what has happened to the vehicle, which doesn't sound like too much to ask for. But with the one I saw in particular being driven over 1k miles on too much oil, that is a definite no-go.

TheCraigy > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 11:56

Yeah as mentioned before, you want an 09+ for the better idrive. Also it seems like when I did my research the very few minor bugs with the M3 were predominantly in 08 cars. It shouldn't be much more money to get one year newer and you will appreciate it.

IMO don't expect perfect paint unless you want to pay for it (you're looking at a 6-7 year old car that is probably not a garage queen), but the paint work would bother me since you don't know why it was done.

Moreover the mods would bother me the most. A nice exhaust is alright but otherwise it indicates more aggressive previous owners. Dropping these cars IMO is a mistake, as there is only 2.25" of maximum compression and about a half inch before hitting the bump stops. Also it's ruining the active m-dynamic suspension which is very good in these cars.

Try not to get picky with colors and options and it'll make finding a car that much easier. Otherwise be prepared to search nationwide and travel to bring home the right car.

Lekker > TheCraigy
10/01/2014 at 12:07

You're very spot on with everything. It wasn't so much one thing that bothered me, it was that they were not upfront with these changes that had been made to the car and they were aware of. I don't want a garage queen, I just want one in good condition and hopefully unmolested. But let's face it, its a sports car. So at this point it is more about getting the full history of the car, before considering it.

BKRM3 > Lekker
10/01/2014 at 12:07

When you find one please post, like, a MILLION pictures of it. =)

If you have any other questions please look me up. I'm on m3post too, same username. I shopped for a car for 6 months before landing on my E90 (I was also shopping for a 997 C2S as an alternative, which is a whole other can of worms). Because of that and because of how I now use my car, I know an awful lot about these things and would be happy to help!

Lekker > BKRM3
10/01/2014 at 12:25

Will do good sir :) Thank you so much for the help!

Too many M's > BKRM3
10/01/2014 at 12:53

This.

These cars were built to be driven. Plus I'd rather buy from a track junkie who took extra care of the car than the daily driver with the factory recommended service intervals.

But, that's a bummer about the experience. Good luck with the search!